AWESOME NIGHT
damn unforgetable night well done to our crew
hope to show melburn what we really got
also shout outs to HOLLA BAK (these guys are crazy and funny what tha hell)
THE DREAM (love wat u guys bring watch out 4em)
REMORSE (wat can i say boys are freakin awesome damn)
V-SQUAD (crazy chorey)
LOVE THESE CREWS

Congrats to Detour taking out heat 2 – pumped for Remorse and Hollabak wildcards!!! Bring on Battlegrounds!!! Going to be awesome!!

Thanks to all who support the melbourne hip hop and dance scene and DVP. Appreciate it!

Lets all dance for the love and excel in our craft!

Hating, complaining, lecturing each other, sooking is a waste of time. call the waaaaaaambulance. haha =)

Respect and congrats to all crews x

Oh yeh if you want to learn more about hip hop then join us on facebook. The group Express Yo’self! is where the title basically describes itself. its a forum dedicated to you own self expression on hip hop, in all of its artforms. I urge you to join it. and start posting whatever you like in terms of hip hop, questions, suggestions about the current dance scene.. anything you like!

there is a no haters policy thou so no one cant rant and hate on any thread or post for no reason.

So yeh join Express Yo’self! on Facebook its got information on good book, films/doco’s, music related to hip hop.

Peace. Love. One Unity
Ef |Jigsaw Sneakers|

Jay from Jigsaw Sneakers here, I’m with Katja on that note. I’m not hating on anybody at all, I’m stating opinions from the knowledge i’ve gathered, if you can’t bring legit information i hope you could try your best to absorb what I’m trying to get across.

To me the problem lies with the labels unsparingly throw around ie. Hip Hop. I’ve gone to many schools, and one thing i’ve noticed is not many people know exactly what hip hop is, which is what Nomadic (who are touring OZ at this moment for this reason), Arna, Melb Lockers, JS and all the other dancers out there true to the culture are trying to achieve, to spread knowledge and educate others. You guys may not know, but we are always constantly involved with the schools and organizations teaching and spreading this culture we love. It’s not just the dance, hip hop goes beyond that. Like Katja said it’s the culture and how you live and blend hip hop with your own life, whether it be going out and partying with friends, creating your next art piece or writing your next rhyme, even designing posters or photography to name a few. On that note i wanted to give a shout out to MC Philly, for bein a dope MC that night, no scripts just pure rawness!

Heres a couple of things about choreography; Anything can be choreographed, martial arts, an action sequence etc. it’s not necessarily a dance itself, it’s more so moves or sequences that are pre made and pre thought, now thats all good if you enjoy it, keep doing it! But before the labels start coming out know or try to understand what your doing first, at least when that beat drops, you can hold your own!

Now I’m for all types and styles of dance, the style comes out after the music, like Buddah said, ‘Dance first, Style Later’. Thats the thing, most of the styles present, such as locking, popping, party dance, new jack etc – they were all done a certain way, thats what made it that style in the first place, but in most cases they are usually never done properly, and thats fair, since we are all still learning. Instead of just providing Melbourne with choreography workshops, we need workshops from pioneers. I’m sure many dancers have been inspired with Suga Pops (Electric Boogaloos), Greg Campbellock (Lockers), Link (Elite Force) visit to Melbourne – Loose Joint (Elite Force/Mop Top) will be here in September btw!. Anyway By not learning it the correct way, the moves get watered down, which is very common. Now i’m not saying ‘I’m the best’ at doing it, but a lot of people don’t seem to want to re-learn foundation or some aren’t even aware that there is foundation. Hip hop has its own foundation and has a very rich history!

The differences with Hip hop these days as apposed to the previous era is everything was spontaneous, the 90‘s had a feel good vibe and that era of music is what some define as the ‘Golden Era’. A lot of people were able to step ‘outside the box’ by free styling, there wasn’t any clips or ‘classes’ people just did there thing! This is a very import thing for any dancer that dances to street styles, apart from that mainly the music and the dances innovated to reflect modern day music are some of the major differences. Most of the dances these days are innovated from what they were originally, such as ‘Stepping’ for example. What’s lacking is the ‘dance’ there’s not enough dancers who can groove or use real body movements when they do shows, if your questioning this statement, i’ll gladly discuss it more.

If we want to truly spread the essence hip hop, we all need to learn about the history, even now i’m still learning. It’s 25+ years of established culture, knowing what it is and knowing why it is one the biggest world wide phenomena’s takes time. It is only then I think we are able to push the boundaries, and gain our own identity on the world front, by giving information to people to grow with, not just a 5 6 7 8 count.

On Arnas point, the major difference with B-boy/B-girl and hiphop dance was simply they were done to a different genre of music. B-boys/B-girls danced to the breaks, sourcing from latin, funk and even salsa records, whilst the hip hop heads danced to hip hop music, from what i’ve learnt this is how the term ‘freestyle’ or ‘hip hop dancer’ came about – which was a combination of the previous street dance era, ranging everything from, tap, break, house, popping, locking and more!

Hoopdreams is one of the major influential organizations of hip hop for Australia in my opinion. Now I’m not doubting their organizational skills or bringing any of them down individually, but people come to these events expecting to see ‘Hip Hop’ – it’s what it is being promoted as and you guys are just as much involved and apart of this culture as everyone else so if your truly doing this for the love of hip hop and this goes out to everyone, it would be good to gain some knowledge on it as well not just youtube knowledge, i can guarantee it will open your mind, and hopefully improve the quality of the competitions or your dancing, allowing all of us to grow more!

It’s always good to get a healthy discussion going so i encourage people to to join in.

Just my 2c ^^
Here are some links to refer to:

Everything Remains Raw – By Ill Kosby (MOPTOP CREW)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0slRuuS0FwI

New School Dictionary (ELITEFORCE / DANCE FUSION)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bebbVyfyNw4

Defining Commercial Hip hop aka LA Style (ELITE FORCE)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55iFKOas2yw

Gumboot Dancing, now stepping?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcl3iBJjpz0

Lastly a post by Ill Kosby (Creator of Everything Remains Raw)

“Thursday, November 09, 2006

A few words on Hip Hop Dance & Teaching.
jumping right in:

In my travels, reading, thinking, listening and researching i find myself once again looking to share and provoke thought in others.

First, to all my real and non-real hip hoppers…lets drop the ego’s. We are all connected through love of dance and music none of us are bigger than the dance or the music. Let us share what we have, and if you can’t bring anything to the table, then listen.

Second: stop thinking this all started with you, dance has a very rich history and has been around since man first marked on walls.Just because you didn’t personally see a movement being down doesn’t mean it did not exist.
most of what we think was created in our time period of Funk & Hip Hop was really innovated, It came from a movement before it or was inspired by a movement; which means someone innovated on top of what was already happening.

One of the lasted dances out “chicken noodle soup” is reminiscent of the dance “black bottom” a dance that replaced the charleston as the newest dance in 1928, CNS also has movement from an earlier dance born in the mid 1800’s called the CAKE WALK. You can also see a young person doing the cake walk in the documentary RIZE in one of the shots by the fenced-in lot one boy runs around the circle with one hand in the air and doing a high step strut around the circle which is how the cake walk was performed. Which goes to show just because you didn’t hear of or see a movement/dance being done etc, etc…

Do your research I remember Wiggles mentioning that we (dance community) are still not sure of the origins of the style Tutting. In my research i can say one of the places to look is the classical court dance of Cambodia. Im reminded, that someone on dance-dot-net tried to question a statement i made about Hip Hop dances being connected to African dances. My response: it is suggested, that certain basic movements can be associated with certain African tribes as put by Robert F. Thompson. Thus, the Pygmies are famous for their footwork, the Dahomeans for their head and shoulder motions, and the Congolese for their hip and loin movements.
think about this – The deep structure within a culture is found in the retention of characteristics of behavior that are not effected by time & geography; surface structure is effected by time and geography. Let us all keep that in mind when learning about different dances that have a strong cultural background.

HIP HOP CLASS:

First let me say that the concept of teaching Hip Hop dance makes no sense to me. Hip Hop dance is just bending your knees, bopping the head, torso contraction and moving to and with the music. It is about self-expression. Now learning how to do certain party dances i understand.

Many of us think that we are good teachers but are we? Lets take a look at three words. TEACHING, INSTRUCTING and EDUCATING.

TEACHING – is to communicate knowledge;

INSTRUCTING – is to impart knowledge with special method and completeness;

EDUCATING – is to draw out or develop the mental powers;

How can you communicate knowledge if you don’t know about the history of the dance(s) not just present but past as well. Understanding the workings of the body, not everyone learns in the same way…you can’t always say just do this. sometimes you have to explain the difference between using the inner and outer stomach muscles when trying to reach a certain result or how to use the Trapezius muscle when doing a body-wave from the shoulder down to the hips.
Have you ever heard someone say “i’m doing what your doing, but i don’t look like you”. We all don’t have the same connection to music, movement, culture, etc…Do you know how to help someone relate to those differences?
This is where understanding movement comes in handy and taking the time to make sure the student is able to move forward. Anyone can place an arm here a leg there but to comprehend what is going on in the body is all together different. It is the journey from point A to B that the dance is alive.

SELF EXPRESSION:

Dr. Bernice Reagon at the African Dance Conference in 1990 said “The maturity of the movement is measured by the degree that it changes to express the uniqueness of the dancer. The degree that the dancer takes a movement and makes it his/her own, only by making one’s own statement does dance mature.”

This was just a few thoughts.

sources of info:
Marshall & Jean Stearns – jazz dance (the story of american vernacular dance)
Kariamu Welsh Asante – African Dance.”

(Sourced from EXPRESS Yo’ Self, not sure where they got it from -_-;?)

to sasha

our group are from the western side of town point cook,trugga,deer park
we are fresh in the hip hop world and loving it
our first comp was at get krumped we were a bit on the crawling side
of chore and still are lol, but still learning as we go
thanks for the compliment

just wondering when the videos are gonna be posted?

thanks

hey guys,

i feel like i’m going to get crap for posting this…but like katja said its a forum to share opinions right?
on the topic of the hip hop scene, there’s just a little something that bugs me a little too…

i just wanna say something from the view of a so called “hip hop dancer”…i dont like to label myself as a hip hop dancer as i do believe that there is much more to hip hop styles then just learning them in a studio, however, as choreographed hip hop has come to play in this day and is labelled as “hip hop” commercially to the general public that is how other ppl understand what i and many other dancers do. i dont know about every dancer in melbourne but i kno that my friends and i have the utmost respect for the hip hop scene and styles and understand that there is a history to it.

i also think that the way crews are going about with hip hop comps can be seen in a way as offensive. judging criteria often involves “use of different styles”. in different comps the definition of styles may vary as they cld mean hip hop styles or choreography styles. but for crews trying and tick boxes using hip hop styles, at least do your training. dont just pick a song and think you can lock to it. i know for a fact that i would never feel comfortable doing any hip hop style without at least training in it for a while

however, i also belive that as a choreography dancer just because what we do isnt necessarily hip hop doesnt mean that it doesnt deserve just as much respect. it takes a lot of effort and training to put together a crew show that not only shares our passion for dance with an audience but entertains them as well. we constantly need to recreate ourselves as dancers and choreographers as we dont moves and techniques. i think that the respect needs to go both ways for all kinds of dancers to be understood. on the night i did notice some ppl that came just to watch jigsaw, and i understand if you needed to go somwhere, but doesnt every crew deserve your time with all the work that they put into there shows. i personally had a handful of friends performing on the night, but i went to the competition hoping to be inspired by the talent and idea that all crews have to offer. Sure support ur crew, but support the dance community in general. thats how it will grow.

i found that in a way it is unfair that judges are mainly jazz based dancers. i understand that they hav the experience to judge a show, but i dont believe that they had been around hip hop comp dancing for long enough or would appreciate some of the work displayed at groove at the 2nd elimination.

it just sorta sucks coz it seems like the only way dancing will attract a crowd is through a competition. would the crowed be as interested if it was merely a showcase? sure ppl are paying money for the jabbawockees concert, but would be pay money to see our own local crews dance? dancing shouldnt be about being the best or about winning every comp. we as dancers should be willing to share what we all have to offer each other and the general public. we should all be aiming to improve in every way possible, whether it be taking class or jamming.

sorry that was a lot longer then i thought it would be…

but congrat to everyone who performed on the night and good luck to all the crews competing in WSB =]

i really wish there was a like button to some of these posts.

Oh and for the people getting angry, annoyed or whatever at those posting their thoughts on what the rankings should have been…let them talk =] prove them wrong!

Everyone earned their placings. Everyone’s entitled to an opinion. You’re always going to have a hater – if you have no haters in life it means you’re getting nowhere! That’s what their job is – to hate dah! So let em hate. Man up!

Hi Katja,

I was actually inspired by your post after mine – I love these discussions and it is so important that we are all aware of each other to help the growth of knowledge as we all are and will always be students of the dance. I totally get what you are saying it was just that you went more for the “Melbourne dancers are bs” line that I felt compelled to say something as ultimately just like Jay I totally agree about how hip hop dance needs to be represented and understood in its truest forms. It’s sad to say this but I know a few of the dancers in this scene aren’t even into hip hop music or its culture so that’s where some of the problems are. The style of dance within hip hop has always been about the music and as the music has changed so has the dance and the transition of this is clear from bboy/bgirl breaks to Big Daddy Kane. There was no hip hop music in the 70’s – that came after and with that new dance styles.

Today’s dancing – I guess it’s one of those things – is it viewed that choreographed “hip hop” is simply a progression of the times of manufactured pop rnb videos and has become part of the culture or because the technique that it does offer has no official names like other hip hop styles but technique words similar to jazz terms that it is not even viewed as hip hop related?

I remember when Suga Pop came down and spoke to us – it left many of us feeling confused but yet leaving with an understanding. For me I know the feeling that I get when I do choreographed “hip hop” and that has always been the feeling that I would get back in the day watching Salt N Pepa video clips or Snoopy or Naughty By Nature. I don’t like to use this word but just good ol’ gangsta funk which over the years has made me realise that this source for these groove steps has stemmed from one of the originators Elite Force. I guess it’s how we all continue to translate this soul into steps. Other styles of dance particularly contemporary have evolved so do we accept that this is simply an evolved part of the dance or do we rename it?

My thoughts are that it won’t be renamed all we can do is assist with growing the original styles to better the dancers to do what they are currently doing even better. To be able to freestyle – to learn how to groove – to understand the foundation steps for styles will only enhance choreographed pieces. I do agree that the word hip hop needs to be used correctly for all events – I for one have never described an event as a hip hop event if it is not including all four elements of hip hop. If it’s a hip hop dance event then it needs to be stated as a hip hop dance event not hip hop event. Through my line of work so many people will ask for a hip hop dancer that they need for a program and I always have to ask “what do you mean – someone that can break, pop etc” as it is part of the education process as some people mean for a hip hop dancer a bboy or they mean a choreographed dancer or dare I say a “rap dancer”!!!!!

Reading these discussion has been fantastic and am definitely not feeling no hate but love for the dance from all of us. Big ups to the continued discussion and spread of knowledge of the dance. Katja do we know each other?

Also Buddha’s class in New York was the most incredible class I have ever been to – amazing, amazing!!!

Peace

On further notes about judges if we as hip hop dancers won’t be asked to judge a jazz, ballet or contemp then why do we get jazz, ballet contemp judges for hip hop comps? In a sense it puts down hip hop dance as it’s saying that we don’t have respected leaders in our own industry to take this place and that it this style can be judged by anyone but I also feel that there is a limited group of leaders in our field that we would consider to judge. So it’s about developing the scene, working together to be able to draw from more people who could and would have enough knowledge to judge.

Out of curiosty who do think is on this list to judge these comps??

roboooooooot girl dude u would be the shit at writing essays.. u have so many points and u make everything sound so complicated and smart and it still makes sense. its amazing how much u have to say LOL DO MY HOMEWORK FOR ME

HOLLLAAAAAAAAAAA

congratz to all the crews that made it to WSB!! think really hard bout ur chorey, make everything unique!! make all the craziest ideas in ur head come to life!! hit every single beat fast n hard coz i know the intls crews will be doing that!! u cant even blink or ull miss out!!! we dont wna be chasing them n tryna keep up with what they do!! it should be the other way around!!! so to all the melb crews!!! work hard n bring it home!!! good luck!!!

p.s i hope no1 plays an air guitar during transitions at WSB coz there was a lot of that at groove!!! =/ im not dissing any1s chorey but clearly there wasnt much thought put into it, if every1 else does it!!

lmao!!!! it’s true that it is locking but dude it was so over used…. Come on- don’t just take one locking move and use it in every transition it’s dry, I think that was the point of the comment.

Just another congratz to all the crews that will be reppin’ Melbourne at WSB 2009.. GOOD LUCK GUYS..
Big ups to DVP and Detour.. And a further congratz to ‘HOOD DREAMS’ for qualifying as a Wilcard for the Varsity Division.. You guys are SICK!!! Keep it up..

gees ‘my2cents’ all the crews im sure put in soo much effort into the chory they present, so maybe you should think about all the effort put into that instead of pinpointing the negatives.

gees ‘opinion’ maybe you shouldve read the support i was giving to all the crews that made it WSB instead of pinpointing what u call negative, constructive criticism! i know all the crews put effort into their chorey but if every1 is doing the same thing where does that leave us?!?! take risks!! be different!! bring something new to the floor!!

i read your comment a few times.

i read the bit where it said AIR GUITAR MOVE

therefore i was pinpointing your mistake and lack of street dance knowledge

simply educating you to what you don’t know.

go take a locking class or rather your on the internet now,go look it up.

sweet and sour baby.. lets also welcome the identity dance crew.

Phils Allstars all have backgrounds in freestlye though. The shows and performances that they do are all different to how they jam and fresstyle.

My2centz, yeah its everyones time to create history but theres always going to be politics… !!! has a point, I dont think it was directed specifically at you, I think !! was making the point if your all game enough in doing the ‘air guitar’ move then be game enough to learn its history and what it symbolises for the generations before us. You ask what it leaves you guys, well when I look on the stage I see 100’s of hip hop moves, skills and funkstyle groves NOT being used, so that leaves you plently of other options.

Trav, dude I get your point but without hate hip hop really wouldnt have surfaced. It came from generations of opression and without hate we don’t need love to prove stuff wrong..plus we shouldnt look at it as hate, just opinion… as my2centz said, constructive criticism. dont get on stage to perform to a public audience if you cant handle public opinion

wow, must of been a lag in some of the comments.

Robotgirl* respects to you for continuing the growth of knowledge. I first learnt the truth about hip hop from a emcee/rap and graff side, so I like to think of it as a whole. I don’t know you properly but I saw you @ VHC or the Showcases.

I think choreo is a skill in its own and therefore it should be labelled accordingly. its not hip hop, its not jaz, its not funk..its a hybrid style of expression I guess. Street Jazz? I don’t know. I still stand by my statement about Syd and Melb having distinct differences and its not a good bad or neutral thing, its just a statement. Me and some of Jigsaw love Sydneys encouragement of freestyle jams so much we’re trying to give it life in Melb. To anyone that thought I meant otherwise..bs. i love melbourne. we’re a class of our own, its just that we can always learn from other influences

YUP ELLUSIVEEEEEEEE! Woohoo.

To Trav

U cant jus say ‘No one is ever happy here in oz’ coz its the same in dance comps around the world. thou it is true no one is happy with the results almost every groove but even at hip hop international, bboy battles around the world, etc theres no difference as oppose to here.

every1 has different opinions bout dance n they will give u their opinion which can be misconstrue in most cases as a way to hate on other. thou u will get ur occasional douchebag who’ll jus dilbrately hate on others crew coz their crew didnt get the result they wanted but hey thats jus part of the comp. i dont courage hate in these comps but politics, they will happen. some ppl jus have to learn 2 not let it get to them. unfortunately ull never make every1 happy as much as u’d like 2.

thanx 2 hoopdreamz 4 putting up this event every yr.

peace n love

martin

so what do you bring to the table?

history is just as important with any culture.These are the roots and this what made you.

yay i love dancing!! go superhoooodz

hey guys does anybody knwo if theres a crew called unleashed here in melbourne?? or is it jsut adelaide?..or is it a dance school in glen iris?…just heard about them off a friend